"Are You Alright?" The Dangers of Cancel Culture

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Thank you all for joining us
today.

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We're bringing you an episode
unlike any other we've recorded

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so far.
Our motivation to do an episode

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entirely on mental health comes
entirely from what we have

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witnessed on social media over
the past year.

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If you are new to this fandom or
have been fortunate to have been

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able to avoid Twitter, you might
not be aware of a situation that

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occurred in February 2024 that
knocked Lovejoy's upward climb

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off the tracks.
While we feel it is not our

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place to get involved in
specifics, we are hyper aware of

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the elephant in the room.
In late February 2024, an

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ex-girlfriend of Will's spoke
out in a YouTube video with

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intimate and painful details
about their relationship.

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While Will's name is not
specifically mentioned, about a

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week later he made a written
statement expressing his view of

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what transpired, his apologies
for the person he was during

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that time, and a desire to
continue to improve as a person.

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Unfortunately, the outcome of
all of this was a deep divide

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between those wishing to stand
behind Will and Lovejoy and

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those who took an opposing and
at times vitriolic stance

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against those who remained and
against Will and the band

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themselves.
Mental health was at an all time

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low and LED to Lovejoy
cancelling upcoming

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performances, including
Coachella, and delaying the

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release of a single.
As Lovejoy's audience is

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primarily made-up of young
adults and teens, they were the

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most affected by the backlash of
former fans and were subjected

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to bullying, doxing, and
constant harassment.

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It has been a tough year and
thankfully things are looking

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up, but there are still so many
love enjoyers coping with this

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and are even afraid to admit
they are fans openly today.

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With professional guidance, we
can help these young people

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learn how to react, respond,
recover, and develop healthy

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ways to use social media while
being true to themselves.

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Love enjoyers.
Please join us in welcoming Ali

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Raidenberg to the show.
Ali has a master's degree from

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the University of San Diego and
has dedicated her career to

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advocating for young people.
She's written a book titled Out

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of Focus, which talks about Gen.
Z's mental health crisis and has

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a real passion for societal
changes that improve mental

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health in Gen.
Z as a whole.

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Ali, thanks so much for taking
the time to hang out with us

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today.
Yeah, I'm so happy to be here.

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In researching all of this,
we've we're hoping to do a a

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series of episodes on mental
health.

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And while we have you on today,
we would like to address the

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cancel culture as that seems to
be a prevalent issue in the

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fandom.
I think Angie, you had something

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about that.
Yes, cancel culture, as I'm sure

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everyone was aware, seems to be
a real popular catch phrase as

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of recently, and I know we've
all heard it before, really know

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what it means.
What is the real definition of

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cancel culture?
Yeah, so cancel culture really

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is about this social practice
that basically publicly calls

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out, boycotts or ostracizes a
person.

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And it's usually online and
it's, it's this act of basically

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acting like someone is suddenly
no longer able to be a active

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part of society, that they're no
longer relevant, that they're

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not important, or that they're
just basically just exiled.

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And it's extremely, extremely
concerning, especially now more

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than ever because, well, the
idea of it could be good to call

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out big organizations such as
our government and things like

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that, where there are practices
that need to be called out.

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When it goes to individuals and
it's being used to basically

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exile people from a sense of
belonging in society, it becomes

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just incredibly dangerous to
people, especially for their

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mental health.
And what I've noticed in the

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fandom, it's not only is it bad
for the person being ostracized

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or shunned, those that advocate
or come across as advocating or

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supporting that person often
then become either not

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necessarily cancelled, but
bullied, harassed, ostracize

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themselves.
So it's like a a ripple effect.

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I often liken it to to, you
know, those old movies where you

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have the villagers with
pitchforks flaming.

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That's what it feels like.
It feels like you have a virtual

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group of people with flaming
pitchforks that are coming

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after, you know, one person or
another for whatever reason.

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And Ali, I can't imagine the
toll that that must take on a

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young mind of being bullied like
that.

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Yeah, I mean, the harm is just
incredible.

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I mean, I think about just how
it happens in social

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relationships, even friendships
outside of being online.

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I I personally experienced this.
I was dating someone a couple

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years ago who my friends didn't
like because of his, the way he

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dressed.
And they decided they didn't

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want to be my friend anymore
because they didn't like the

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person I was dating.
And I was literally cancelled by

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a group of friends I had known
for years because they didn't

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like my partner.
Now looking back, I just think

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about how harmful that was
because not only did they see

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nuance, they didn't really see
me.

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And they chose to basically
follow a really weird, you know,

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social guideline that was just
wacky.

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And it ended up harming me
because that was a friend group

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I really relied on socially and
to lose them was really painful

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for me.
That's.

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Awful because it feels not only
they're anti that person, but

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they should if they love and
respect you realize you see

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something in this person that
has value and be there for you

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for that, you know, so that's
that's terrible.

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I'm sorry you went through that.
Yeah, yeah, well, it's

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incredibly common that the act
of cancelling each other is

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incredibly common, and it's
becoming a normal part of

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society to basically cancel
people when they no longer serve

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you.
There's this culture right now

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where it's all over online.
You hear people talking about

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how if that person doesn't make
you happy, if they don't bring

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you joy, just cut them out of
your life, goodbye, we're done.

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We're done with them.
Or, you know, you have a friend

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who you've seen them for a few
times and they've just been

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really negative and they're just
not what you're used to and

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suddenly bye, done.
And that's a really prevailing

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culture right now.
And I'm honestly not even sure

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where it started.
I think it's just there's

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there's a mental health crisis
at large and people are trying

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to figure out how to navigate
it.

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And I think this has come out of
it is people think 1 little

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thing doesn't bring them joy.
They need to just cut it out of

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their lives because we're all
very, very depressed and anxious

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as it is, especially as a
generation.

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And so I think it's come out of
that, but it's one of the

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negative things that's happened.
And it's one of these really

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misguided and just very, very
negative, awful things that has

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come out of Gen.
Z culture.

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And I think it's a bit in
millennial culture too.

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But I think it's one of those
things where we just decide, OK,

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I'm done with that person
because I didn't like this one

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thing.
And that's where it gets really

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harmful, because then it shames
and isolates people and it

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doesn't give people a chance and
it doesn't account for nuance.

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Right.
And yeah, the just that people

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are disposable, and I've seen
you use that word too.

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Absolutely, there's it's just
disposable culture and acting

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like people can just be disposed
of.

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And I mean, it's so common now,
even with dating apps.

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It's become so easy to meet
people and talk to people, and

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people are so accessible.
But the problem with that is

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that we're not having genuine
friendships and relationships in

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our real lives because we're so
busy online and we're so busy

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with this disposable culture.
And so we're not forming

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meaningful connections and
relationships because of that.

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I think it's interesting when
you say disposable culture

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because there are so many other
things I feel like in life right

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now that people consider
disposable.

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I mean, quite literally think
about all of the waste that we

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create, you know, most of us
every day.

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And what you said about being
online I think is a great point

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because if you're spending all
of your time scrolling on your

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phone, then you don't have time
to really pay attention to

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someone or cultivate a
relationship.

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And so you just, rather than try
and work on a friendship or

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relationship, you just, you just
cut the cord right away.

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Yeah, and the problem with it is
that it creates a society in

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which everyone feels a crap ton
of shame every time something

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comes out and they don't know
what to say.

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And then it creates silence.
And then there's a bunch of

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people who might feel one way
about something and then not

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speak up because they're too
afraid of what the outcome might

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be.
And that's dangerous in itself

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because even climate change, I
was reading a study earlier

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about climate change, about how
90% of people want to have

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policies put in place to protect
our environment.

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But there's this idea between
everyone who doesn't want to

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speak up about it that, oh, no
one cares about it.

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But the truth is, is that when
they actually collected the

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data, they looked at like 6000
people.

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And they found that across the
board, society as a whole wants

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to see change in the
environment.

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But because no one's speaking up
about it, and because people are

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too afraid to speak up about it,
nothing is happening and nothing

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is changing.
And we see this in our

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friendships and our
relationships.

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And even with Lovejoy, a lot of
people aren't speaking up about

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what they think because they're
too afraid of the the hate and

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the rage that's going to come
down on them.

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And it's just a dangerous
culture.

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And especially for all the
people involved in that, his

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friends and family, people that
have cut him off too.

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I'm sure they have opinions, but
because of the way society rains

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down on people, no one is
speaking up.

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It's so true.
I mean, you could be a number

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one streamer or singer or
whatever one day and the next it

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could be all gone and you could
be, you know, put you up on a

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pedestal one day and tear you
down just as fast the next day.

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And that's scary.
And that's and they're real

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people on the other side of that
screen.

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And that's what I think it's
forgotten as well, like you

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said.
But when you mentioned the

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dating app, Oh my gosh, like
that got such a visual of the

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whole swipe left, swipe right,
like that could be your

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soulmate.
You just swiped by but because

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you know, you don't like their
glasses or there maybe looked a

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little heavier than you'd look
for normally.

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Like that's sad that every that
it's just swiping that scrolling

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on the TikTok, just swiping by
people swiping by like not

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making real time for anyone.
Absolutely.

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And I think that's one of the
biggest issues with all these

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different things that are sprung
up on us, whether it's about

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politics, whether it's in our
friendships, we're not being

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taught about nuance and we're
not given the time or space to

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really process things.
And the problem with that is

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that a lot of teens are expected
to have these answers to really

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complex problems that, I mean,
most philosophers with PhDs are

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arguing about and have no
answers to.

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So to expect a 14 year old to
know or have an opinion on such

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a complex issue and then expect
them to side with one group or

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another group, it's just it's
mob mentality.

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It's dangerous, it's polarizing.
And we need to start teaching

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people about nuance and the idea
that it's OK to not have an

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answer or an opinion about
everything and instead see that

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there can be nuanced, there can
be both good and bad in a

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situation.
You can both love one thing

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someone does and hate another
thing another thing that they do

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and understand that every person
on this earth has both good and

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bad qualities.
We're all nuanced human beings,

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and so we have to start treating
each other that way.

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And another thing to just add in
there is that there's been these

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declining levels of trust in our
society over the last.

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For sure you.
Know, you know, half a century

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since the 1950s, there's been
levels of declining trust.

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And even if you look at that, my
parents generation between mine,

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people have a lot more trust for
each other.

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And the reason why that's so
harmful is because then it

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creates in groups and out groups
and people not willing to engage

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with other groups that they're
not familiar with.

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And so that furthers this
loneliness epidemic and this

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00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,760
epidemic of children who don't
feel like they have a safe

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00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,040
space.
And I think too many they've

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they found a space on Twitter,
which is like, I don't know

230
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,000
about you.
Would you say it's the most

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00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,640
toxic of all social media
platforms?

232
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It seems to be for us.
But they found that to be a safe

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00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,920
space or they made friends.
And like it's true.

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00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,440
I've seen there are real
friendships on there.

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But then when the what do you
call that?

236
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,760
The rug gets pulled out from the
chair, gets pulled out from

237
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,480
under you.
When this whole fandom it

238
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,080
became, it's just sort of like
everybody scattered and then

239
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,040
they couldn't find their way and
didn't didn't know who to talk

240
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,320
to.
And who are you on my side or

241
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,360
that side or the other side?
You know, it's just that safe

242
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,440
space that lived online vanished
for them overnight.

243
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,360
That's a really good point.
Yeah, I've noticed too that and

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00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,400
Ally, you brought up, like you
brought up a really good point

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00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:35,480
about about people forcing teens
to pick a side.

246
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,320
Either you're on one side or the
other.

247
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,640
And I've seen a lot of examples
where kids have just been in

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certain situations, have been
flat out like, well, I don't

249
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:52,360
know which side I'm on.
I don't understand this, You

250
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,640
know, I'm, I'm just a teenager.
There's a lot that I don't know

251
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,520
about this.
And it seems like there's always

252
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the same group of peers, meaning
like the teenagers peers that

253
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are really kind of harassing
these other kids and pushing

254
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,400
them to be on one side or the
other.

255
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What do you think contributes to
the actions of these kids who

256
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:28,240
are really seeking to force
these kids to be on one side or

257
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,120
the other and just really force
them to make a decision?

258
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,400
What?
What is the root of of some of

259
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,840
that behavior?
What do you think?

260
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,840
I mean, I can't give you a
definitive answer about that

261
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,320
because I feel like it's, it's
pretty complex.

262
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:50,960
But what I will say is that our
society loves binaries.

263
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,120
They love to group people into
boy or girl, a man or woman.

264
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,680
They they'd love to have this.
You're Democrat, you're

265
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,920
Republican.
There is not a lot of nuance in

266
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,839
our society.
And it's a problem because if

267
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you look at most things, there's
a spectrum.

268
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And I think that when we try to
force people into groups, it's

269
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really, really it's harmful and
it's just very common.

270
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And I think when someone goes
out of their way to try to force

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someone to choose a side, maybe
it's because of their own

272
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discomfort with the idea of the
other side.

273
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And they want to know, is this
person in my in Group or not?

274
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And I think for a lot of people,
we have this group mentality and

275
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even within our political
parties, we have these ideas of

276
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are you perfectly a part of this
party or are you not?

277
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And then we exile people who
aren't perfectly a part of the

278
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,040
agenda.
And across the board, this is a

279
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,920
problem with every different
subject you can look at.

280
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,440
But when it comes to even music
and exiling someone because of a

281
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,600
band, I think it just goes to
show people are really, really

282
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afraid of nuance.
I feel like at least from what

283
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,360
we've seen, or maybe it's just
who happens to go on Twitter, a

284
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:19,200
lot of these kids don't have
parental support and they escape

285
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,440
to places like Twitter A.
Lot of kids, like you're saying,

286
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,560
do not have parental support.
Absolutely.

287
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,680
It is a huge, terrifying
problem.

288
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:36,760
Yeah, it's our generation grew
up with the most divorces of any

289
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,480
generation.
And so a lot of us grew up in

290
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,680
broken homes, unfortunately.
And at the same time, a lot of

291
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,560
us also grew up with helicopter
parents and parents that over

292
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,160
parented like crazy, wanted to
know every little thing we were

293
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,280
doing, every club, every
meeting, every extracurricular.

294
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,120
But beyond that, there is also,
I write about this in my book

295
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,520
Emotional Neglect.
And I think it came from this.

296
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,480
I don't know if it came from
fear or what it was, but a lot

297
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,800
of parents emotionally neglected
us.

298
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,200
And what I mean by that is that
a lot of times we were

299
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,000
invalidated for what we felt.
And I can even speak to my my

300
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,440
own experience.
I have one of the best moms in

301
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,960
the world, but growing up, she
didn't really understand what

302
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:33,120
was happening to me online.
I would do all kinds of crazy

303
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,520
stuff online because it was just
coming out and I was discovering

304
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,040
it as it was coming out.
And so I didn't know the harm of

305
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,360
it.
And I was a curious young, young

306
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,880
child.
But I mean, I was going on like

307
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,360
Yahoo Answers or Omegle or Club
Penguin.

308
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:52,520
And in all of those spaces,
there were all kinds of things

309
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,800
that I was encountering,
including bullying.

310
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,720
And I would bring it to my mom
and say, you know, this person

311
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,080
was really mean to me online.
I'm so upset.

312
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,720
And my mom would go, oh, that
didn't happen.

313
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,240
I don't believe you.
And that's, I believe, very

314
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,360
common, at least for people and
the older part of Gen.

315
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:15,600
Z and the younger millennials,
because they had no clue.

316
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,600
They had no clue what we were
experiencing or what was going

317
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,040
on.
And I think because of that, a

318
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:28,520
lot of us experienced a lot of
harmful, traumatic things online

319
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,480
and we had no one to talk to or
go to for these issues.

320
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,360
Yeah, it was the Wild West,
especially then, you know, it

321
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,240
was just free, wide open.
You don't know who you're

322
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,400
talking to.
But like, like you said, what

323
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,600
they encounter even, you know,
that's why I think Twitter with

324
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,840
like, I don't know, Ange, I was
floored.

325
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,440
Twitter was not a place I used.
I use Facebook, you know, like

326
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,840
other people might.
Stage fame.

327
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:06,080
And Instagram, but when Twitter
was the place for this fandom

328
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,280
and I like I don't know why, I
just like glommed onto it and

329
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,880
was just.
Like I have to do something

330
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,920
taught myself Twitter.
It's, it's really scary.

331
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,520
And I the only reason I ever
went on Twitter is because I

332
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,160
realized if I wanted Lovejoy
information, like the details,

333
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,040
the up to date stuff, that's
where I had to go.

334
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,080
And it was definitely an eye
opener.

335
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,200
I was like, this is crazy.
And you're right.

336
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,360
Some of the things these, oh,
these kids that they that they

337
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:37,320
post about, yeah.
It's so sad.

338
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,560
Needless to say, after things
went sideways, I hate that

339
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,480
expression, but I'm using it
with this fandom and with this

340
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,440
band for a while.
They ditched Twitter, they're

341
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,400
out of here.
So I'm glad they left the

342
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,520
toxicity of Twitter.
But now these kids are still

343
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,200
here and I keep asking them,
please, please come to

344
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,760
Instagram, at least come on,
come with me.

345
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,120
But no, no, that's where they're
staying.

346
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,200
In 2007, that's when we started
seeing increases of suicide

347
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,120
rates.
And that was also a time when

348
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,840
the Kardashians launched and
when we started experiencing the

349
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,840
housing crisis.
And so when you think about, I

350
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,600
mean, Facebook was created as a
hot or not scheme.

351
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,840
And then, of course, Zuckerberg
figured out he can make a lot of

352
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,880
money off of this whole social
media thing.

353
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:42,400
But it started as a entrepreneur
seeing a need and something he

354
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,440
can make money off of.
But the need was already there.

355
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,360
People weren't connected.
And he saw a way for people to

356
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,760
figure out who's hot or not.
And he knew that there was a

357
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,520
need out there for people to see
who was hot or not, which is so

358
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,240
silly.
But it became and exploded into

359
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,880
one of the big biggest social
media apps in the world.

360
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,000
The thing is, is that social
media itself, Myspace,

361
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:13,520
Instagram, Snapchat, all of
those things came out of a need

362
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,960
which is loneliness.
And I don't know if you guys

363
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:23,200
have heard of Mother Teresa.
In 1950, she gave a speech about

364
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,200
how loneliness was one of the
greatest problems in society.

365
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,120
That was 1950.
And and so that just goes to

366
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,800
show that this has been an issue
for a long time.

367
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,680
People have struggling with
loneliness, disconnection,

368
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:42,880
isolation for a very long time.
But now social media has made

369
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,520
money because it filled an unmet
need.

370
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,480
But the problem is, is it's a
mirror in the sense that it's

371
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,080
basically portraying all the
worst parts of culture because

372
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,160
that's what makes money.
That's what gets people's

373
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,320
attention.
Yeah, I see At your point about

374
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,720
that, it's, it's just a, it's a
mechanism.

375
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,480
It's not.
It's not necessarily the the

376
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,680
'cause.
If social media was all just

377
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,680
cooking videos, learning
science, learning how to sew,

378
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:18,240
learning different things about
the universe and education,

379
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,080
there would be no problem right
now.

380
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,520
I really believe that.
So I I really think that social

381
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,200
media itself, it was not the
spark, but it is the fire.

382
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,000
Yeah, because what do you think
about like everyone has a a

383
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,200
voice now every mean.
See, I don't want to just label

384
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,040
people as mean people, but you
know what I mean?

385
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,960
Like they're if you have a
different opinion, you get

386
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,600
trounced on.
So normally you wouldn't

387
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,360
encounter 10 people when you
walk outside your door, like all

388
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:54,760
yelling at you.
So it's a, right?

389
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,240
I feel like social media too,
and correct me if I'm wrong, but

390
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,880
I feel like we have a real
problem in the society right now

391
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,480
with the dehumanization.
Like we don't think of people as

392
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,080
actual humans and I don't know
if it's because you see so many

393
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,960
people on a screen.
Are you able to speak to that at

394
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,800
all?
Do you think that we have a

395
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,200
problem right now with not
seeing each other as actual

396
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,440
breathing, living human beings,
and do you think social media is

397
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,440
playing a role in that?
I think dehumanization started

398
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,120
the minute we started
industrializing and becoming a

399
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,280
capitalistic society, to be
quite frank with you.

400
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,640
I think especially the minute we
started exploiting people for

401
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,880
money and creating monopolies
and billionaires and and people

402
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,960
who are basically power hungry
and not actually helping the

403
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,880
people.
I think we've lost humanity a

404
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,240
long time ago.
I think now it's just everyone's

405
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,760
starting to see it.
It's a really good point.

406
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,560
Or just that the whole idea of
people can get better, you know,

407
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,880
in, in relation to this ban when
the things that have come up and

408
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,000
talk of improving yourself or,
and this doesn't just pertain to

409
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,560
the band, but in general, when
people say they're seeking

410
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,480
therapy or seeking to be a
better person, they should be

411
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,440
given the opportunity to prove
themselves.

412
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,520
People don't seem to want to
give that a chance.

413
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,280
Yeah, yeah, exactly what you're
saying is so true.

414
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,160
I believe that there is this
because cancel culture,

415
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,400
basically, it's this idea of
taking away all humanity, all

416
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,600
empathy for that person.
It's just instilling a culture

417
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:55,200
of fear instead of actually
catalyzing nuance and dialogue

418
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,560
and the idea that people can
change and that people can learn

419
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,040
and grow.
And so because people are

420
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,720
cancelled, it really just makes
the issue worse when you think

421
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,480
about it, because if we give
people the time and space to

422
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,240
apologize, to do right, to amend
whatever it was that they were

423
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,360
perceived to be cancelled for,
it holds space for people to

424
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:23,840
actually grow and do better.
But when we cancel them, they're

425
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,160
going to go and they're going to
hide and they're not going to

426
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,800
change.
They're going to think society

427
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,080
sucks and they're going to
cancel society too.

428
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,840
It's like a two way St.
And then it's.

429
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:37,360
You can't help but think that it
feels like those that are cruel

430
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:41,640
online are just cruel 24/7.
But the fact of the matter is,

431
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,520
you take away that megaphone,
shut off that computer or the

432
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,080
phone, they could just be as
sensitive and weak or

433
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,040
problematic themselves, or most
likely are because we're all

434
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,520
human.
And do you think it'll Do you

435
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,520
see a way out?
Do you think things will get

436
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,240
better or how can they?
I know you can't answer the

437
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,840
world's problem.
It's like saying what's the

438
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,320
meaning of life?
But what do you see is what has

439
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,640
to happen for things to improve?
Or are the next generations of

440
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,440
kids just going to have it
worse?

441
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,720
And I can't even imagine what
worse would.

442
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,080
Be I can definitely give some
advice about how we cannot

443
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,760
engage in cancel culture and
what we can do instead for sure.

444
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,400
That would be great.
I think what people need to do

445
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,920
is they need to just pause and
take a breath before they post

446
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,360
anything or even have an
opinion.

447
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,560
I think that the best thing to
do is not to react and instead

448
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,120
reflect so you can ask yourself
questions like do I have the

449
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,160
full story?
Is this post about

450
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,200
accountability or is it just you
know, someone trying to be

451
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,120
right?
You can ask yourself, would

452
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,400
would I say this comment to
someone that someone's face?

453
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,880
Would I say this to someone's
face?

454
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:04,480
And then that pause can turn
into, you know, an actual what

455
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,280
do I actually feel about this
instead of I need to be right or

456
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,680
wrong or pick a side.
The other thing is to swap call

457
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,520
outs for call insurance.
So instead of thinking, oh, this

458
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,280
person's cancelled, you could
say, I saw this and it made me

459
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,040
uncomfortable.
We need to talk about it and

460
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,120
think about it.
So you can call in and invite

461
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,400
reflection and in that in turn
can lead to better connection.

462
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,480
And it's it, it helps because it
helps people change by having an

463
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,320
uncomfortable conversation
instead of just cancelling them.

464
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,080
The the other thing is to name
behavior and not the person.

465
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,680
So instead of saying this person
is horrible, they need to be

466
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,000
exiled and forgotten forever.
You can say that person's action

467
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,160
was the thing that caused the
harm, not that the person is the

468
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,960
harmful person.
And so that gives people this,

469
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,600
this space to actually, you
know, grow and, and do better.

470
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,560
The, the other thing is that you
can give people the time and

471
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,200
space to apologize and let them
try again.

472
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,520
And instead of just saying bye,
instead, you can let them

473
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,800
actually take responsibility and
repair the relationships.

474
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,000
The last thing I can say is that
we need to basically, you know,

475
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,800
we need to teach and practice
what real accountability looks

476
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,520
like.
Because the idea that

477
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,800
accountability is just exiling
someone and treating them like

478
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,720
they're disposable, that's not
real accountability.

479
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,560
It's not, it's just, it's
exiling someone.

480
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,320
And so true accountability
includes naming the harm,

481
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,160
listening to the people that are
actually affected, taking the

482
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,080
steps to repair, and then doing
better moving forward.

483
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,840
And so if we want a culture of
accountability, we need to model

484
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,600
what accountability actually
looks like, instead of just

485
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,760
punishing and exiling people
because when they're exiled,

486
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,000
they can't actually do the work
to do better.

487
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,160
That's very true.
I feel like they're.

488
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,840
Always a lot of sense.
They're always wanting more, but

489
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,520
it's never going to be enough.
I feel like they'll never be

490
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,480
satisfied.
If someone puts out a statement,

491
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,920
they're they're going to nitpick
every word and there's nothing

492
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,600
that could have been said
differently or better

493
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,360
necessarily that would change
their opinion.

494
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,880
It's just a mob mentality, like
we said before.

495
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,320
And I really like the idea of
taking a break, taking a moment.

496
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,000
I remember I had a old, I had a
former boss of mine had the

497
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,000
scrolling on her screensaver.
It was before you speak think

498
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,280
and it's had like it was an
acronym, you know, THINK.

499
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,400
Is it true?
Is it helpful?

500
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,240
Is it inspiring?
Is it necessary?

501
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,920
Is it kind?
And I think if all these kids

502
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,640
thought the word think and
thought about those words before

503
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,280
they wrote them, even in
response to being harassed or

504
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,160
bullied, even if it's not,
they're not the ones, you know,

505
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,880
doing that.
Both sides, like you said, need

506
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,480
to.
I like the idea of a call in and

507
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,720
let's come together and talk.
I actually get like the warm and

508
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,240
fuzzies on the occasions.
I don't know if Angie knows what

509
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,480
I'm talking about.
On occasion when you see like a

510
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,720
thoughtful conversation about,
yes, the situation and

511
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,640
everybody's sort of like, I
appreciate what you're saying.

512
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Oh, I can understand what you're
where you're coming from.

513
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,720
And yeah, that makes sense.
You just just be good humans

514
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,480
right at the end of the day.
And I like the idea what you

515
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,400
said about.
Would you say it to the person's

516
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,360
face?
Could you?

517
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,360
Would you?
These are valuable tools.

518
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,120
Going back to talking about the
person that is being cancelled

519
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:05,200
in particular, would you be able
to speak a little more on the

520
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:10,040
effects of being cancelled?
Whether it's a public figure or,

521
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:15,080
you know, a 14 year old kid on
their computer screen, What what

522
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,080
really happens to someone as, as
they're effectively cancelled

523
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:24,200
and go through this, this, you
know, process of being basically

524
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,360
wiped from society or labeled a
monster.

525
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,680
Yes, yes, being labeled a
monster.

526
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,960
It's not good, I can tell you
that.

527
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,080
I mean, it's, it leads to a lot
of psychological effects like

528
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,360
shame and humiliation, anxiety
and depression, isolation and

529
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,400
loneliness.
There's a psychologist named

530
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,000
Naomi Torres Mackey, and she
says that cancel culture leaves

531
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,440
no room for nuance or grace,
which are essentially the things

532
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,160
that heal and provide
accountability.

533
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,800
And it cuts people off rather
than calling them in, like I

534
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:03,000
said.
And so really the action of

535
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,160
cancelling someone, that person
who is cancelled, it can

536
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,480
literally lead to people
committing suicide.

537
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,199
It's really, really it's, it's
the worst thing you can do to

538
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,760
someone really.
I mean, they put people in

539
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,520
prison into isolation rooms,
cutting them off from from

540
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,440
everything as punishment that
and it's the worst thing you can

541
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,520
really do to someone and people
who go through that, it can

542
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,679
literally lead them to having
mental illness.

543
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:38,440
It's really, really horrible.
And so for for young people who

544
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,760
are seeing this and for the
people experiencing it on both

545
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,080
parties, it creates a culture of
shame and silence.

546
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:51,080
And it also it can lead to
people feeling really, really

547
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,440
depressed and impossibly
suicidal if they're the ones on

548
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,440
the receiving end.
Yeah, I think grace is the

549
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,200
keyword for all of it.
We need to have more of that.

550
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,240
Yes, we do need more of that.
A lot more of that.

551
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,920
I know cancel culture, too, like
you said, has also sort of

552
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,400
forced a lot of kids, and let's
face it, a lot of adults too, to

553
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,960
remain quiet about things that
they would normally speak up

554
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,880
about.
How can teens stand up for their

555
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,960
interests or find the courage to
talk about something that they

556
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,480
like without getting pulled into
a toxic argument?

557
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,440
Yeah, I.
Think that the best thing to do

558
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,480
is to agree to disagree.
Honestly, I think that's kind of

559
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,000
the best thing you can do is say
we're not going to see eye to

560
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,920
eye on everything, but I'd love
to agree to disagree on this.

561
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,080
I respect you, I love you.
This might just be one thing we

562
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,600
don't agree on.
That's fair.

563
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,240
Yeah, that's great.
And I just had a looking back,

564
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,640
looking at the questions, I got
some from some of the listeners,

565
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,720
one of the ones I don't know if
you have any advice for this.

566
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,640
How can a young person help
their friend that is struggling

567
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,040
from afar or like a an online
friend that's really having a

568
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,000
tough time.
They feel a little helpless

569
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,560
because they're not near them
and how how can they be there to

570
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,000
support them?
I guess just listen or.

571
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,560
Yeah, I work with kids.
I've worked with kids for the

572
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,400
last couple of years, and one
kid was describing to me how

573
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,000
they were feeling really
depressed at one point.

574
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,040
And the way that they felt,
which a lot of people with

575
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,800
depression feel, is that no one
cares.

576
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,200
And so one of the best things
you can do for someone in your

577
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:53,200
life that maybe you want to help
is know, make them know that you

578
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,880
care about them, that they
matter to you, that their life

579
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,920
is important to you.
And it can be as simple as

580
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,600
messaging them and saying, hey,
I just want you to know I care

581
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,240
about you so much and you're a
really important person in my

582
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:07,640
life.
Wow.

583
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,800
I think that's huge.
Just no.

584
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,840
Just that touch.
And it's so simple, it's.

585
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:18,560
A lot it is, but it's like you
just saying that was like, of

586
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,360
course, yeah.
And then like, you know, I

587
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,600
think, I think kids, I say this
with my daughter, like I don't

588
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,760
know if it's COVID or what.
Sometimes it's hard for them to

589
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,920
express like emotional things
like that.

590
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,920
But it doesn't have to get to
like deeper heavy or sappy.

591
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,200
It could just be as simple as
like, I'm here.

592
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,320
And yeah, I think that is
meaningful.

593
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,360
I've had kids reach out to me
that have just sort of I always

594
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,640
show it to my daughter because
I'm always like blown away like

595
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,280
that.
They took the time to send me a

596
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,960
message just saying thank you
for being a positive space, like

597
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,360
thank you for the time you take
to do what you do and to be

598
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,440
there.
And for a kid to come out and

599
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,360
say that like it, it means a lot
to me.

600
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,560
So I can only imagine, you know,
like friend to friend online,

601
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,160
like leaving the tweets and like
going to the message and just

602
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,600
saying something sort of a
reaching out the hand moment.

603
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,400
Absolutely.
Yeah, like late at night, if

604
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,200
they have, you know, no one at
home to talk to or and they see

605
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,000
that they're online, like just
that that personal connection,

606
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,240
even if it's miles and miles
away.

607
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,720
I'll do that with with one of my
friends, one of my best friends,

608
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:39,440
even if even if there's nothing
particular wrong.

609
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,680
I mean, you know, we're busy.
We don't always get to talk very

610
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,400
often.
So, you know, you don't even

611
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,200
just sending a quick message
like, hey, thinking about you,

612
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,360
hope you're having a good day,
stuff like that.

613
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,080
I feel like it goes a really
long way.

614
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:55,840
And Ellie, I don't know again if
if you'd be able to give any

615
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,800
advice on this, but what would
be?

616
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,320
And this is another question
from our listeners.

617
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,040
What's the best way to handle
the emotional toll that the

618
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:15,640
hatred fandom or online takes on
you?

619
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,840
Yeah, I think the first thing
you need to do is just

620
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,320
acknowledge what's happening.
Just radically accept and

621
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,800
acknowledge that what's
happening really hurts and you

622
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,840
can even kind of give an
affirmation of like this is.

623
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,320
Horrible this is really.
Painful.

624
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:43,280
I'm human, I'm human.
And then I think I think it's so

625
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,600
important, especially if you're
feeling really a lot of issues

626
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,240
with, you know, anxiety or
depression, I think it's really,

627
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,880
really important to maybe go out
and see a therapist.

628
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,200
I don't think we should handle
these feelings alone.

629
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,360
I really don't, especially when
they're so negative and toxic.

630
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:11,160
I think especially find even a
meditative a meditation

631
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,640
practitioner going and seeing
someone that can help you do

632
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,360
deep breathing, grounding and
and really just.

633
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,720
Regulating your nervous system
because experiencing that type

634
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,680
and that level of hate is just
so harmful for your body and

635
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,080
your nervous system.
It puts you in fight or flight

636
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,640
mode.
It's a lot to handle.

637
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,120
And I mean, the other thing to
say is that learning to not

638
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,440
internalize it.
And so usually a really good

639
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,120
therapist can help you do that
where it can help you realize,

640
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,000
OK, whoever's raining this hate
down on me, that's their own

641
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,480
shit.
That's their own stuff that's

642
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,960
going on.
That's not about me.

643
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,960
But often times it's not, it's,
it's easier said than done.

644
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,640
And so I that's where I
recommend a therapist to help

645
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,520
with that.
Because that's what they're

646
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,000
trying to do.
They're trained to help you with

647
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,920
that.
And and then the last thing

648
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:19,600
we'll say is give pain purpose
and ask what is this teaching me

649
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,120
about what I want to be and even
what you know, Even when other

650
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,800
people don't see me, What is
this teaching me about myself

651
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,520
and who I want to be?
Right.

652
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,440
It's like what not to do?
You don't want to be the the

653
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,440
person that makes someone feel
like the person made you feel.

654
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,440
I know there will be some kids
that will listen to this and

655
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,120
they will say either I've asked
my parents if I can go to

656
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,640
therapy and they tell me, you
know, no, I don't think you need

657
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,800
it or I think it's silly or what
not.

658
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:03,080
Are there any resources out
there for teenagers that might

659
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,760
have parents that aren't
necessarily supportive?

660
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,640
Maybe just a place that they can
reach out to and there's someone

661
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,960
to talk to in the event that
they're not able to actually go

662
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,680
and see a therapist.
Yeah, definitely.

663
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,440
It's complicated.
I talk a lot about the mental

664
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,160
health care system, but I do
want to provide some hope.

665
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,240
I don't want people to feel like
it's a lost cause.

666
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,040
I know there was a law passed
recently.

667
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,000
Actually, I'm not sure if it was
nationally or just in

668
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,120
California, I'd have to check on
that.

669
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,840
But I know that the law passed
basically makes it so that

670
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,960
anyone, any minor can go and
access therapy if they have

671
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,640
insurance.
I'm completely free and

672
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,600
anonymously and they're they
don't need parental permission.

673
00:42:54,120 --> 00:43:00,280
So I would say the best thing to
do is is talk to a doctor or

674
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,120
someone at your school and I
believe they should be able to

675
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,560
access it without any parental
permission.

676
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,000
OK, you write up a good point to
school counselors.

677
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,640
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, there a lot of schools

678
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,520
don't have a lot of counselors
and they don't have enough

679
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,040
counselors.
And we need more.

680
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,000
We desperately need more.
There are I mean, there are

681
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,240
different resources online like
the it's it gets better project

682
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:31,480
OK to talk the crisis emergency
helpline.

683
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,280
I mean even ChatGPT.
I mean, if you want to get funny

684
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,400
with it, I mean, literally AI
has become such a great school.

685
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,160
It's not perfect.
It probably is not the most

686
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,480
amazing thing ever, but it is
free and it is accessible and it

687
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,120
does have a whole lot of
knowledge, so even something as

688
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,560
simple as typing in your
problems to ChatGPT and getting

689
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,040
some solutions could be huge for
a lot of people.

690
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,400
I know ChatGPT is popular in in
the community too so.

691
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,480
Yes, that's true.
I know that some in my life, it

692
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,680
was very helpful.
Affirmations I heard you

693
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,560
mentioned before can be so
helpful.

694
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,840
I know someone that had like a
little sign by the bathroom

695
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,920
mirror and in their car that
said I am calm and I am strong.

696
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,720
And if you sort of keep
repeating those things to

697
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:30,440
yourself or something similar,
like, yeah, you had suggested I

698
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,080
am human.
I forgot what the other part

699
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,720
was.
But things like that, I really

700
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:40,240
do feel like they helped because
you sort of just it's almost

701
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,160
meditative, right?
You you distinct those thoughts

702
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,920
in your mind.
Repeat them.

703
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,480
And I think they're it does
help.

704
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,480
Affirmations can be really
helpful.

705
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,400
Meditation and breath work can
be incredibly helpful.

706
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:59,080
Journaling is a great tool.
Exercise and nutrition are

707
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,680
really really important.
Proper sleep.

708
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,440
Teens need more sleep than
adults.

709
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,720
They need like 9 hours.
I actually, I won the science

710
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:11,680
fair as a teenager about my
research on school start times.

711
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,600
And I think it contributed to
later researchers actually

712
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:22,840
developing the the research to
get schools to start later in a

713
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,080
lot of places.
And so just getting enough sleep

714
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,400
can be huge.
Getting off your phone and going

715
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,160
outside is absolutely huge.
And then the other thing is that

716
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,920
I, I like to say the opposite of
depression is connection.

717
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:45,240
And I think that a lot of us are
not connected with others in the

718
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,040
way that we should.
And most people don't know that

719
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:54,800
developing a true close
friendship can take on average

720
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,360
40 hours.
So people might think, oh, why

721
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,120
is that person not my friend?
Well, that the question to ask

722
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,200
is, did I spend 40 hours with
that person?

723
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,240
Did I put in the effort to see
that person for 40 hours?

724
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:11,880
Like it really does take time,
it takes effort, but it's so

725
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,560
worth it.
And we need to start putting

726
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,120
ourselves out there and having
these meaningful conversations

727
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,920
and then building these
meaningful connections.

728
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,600
Yeah, in person, right, I mean,
not just online.

729
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,720
Yes, yes, in person.
Yeah, the cooling generation

730
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:33,280
left a lot of kids being online
a lot of the time.

731
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,480
And even still, like my daughter
watches TV shows and movies with

732
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,360
her friends in her room online,
which I'm grateful for the fact

733
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,360
that they could do that anytime
they want, which is cool.

734
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,960
But I encourage seeing each
other in person as well.

735
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,600
Yes, and.
I feel like there's a lot of

736
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,040
kids today that place importance
on how many friends they have.

737
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:00,280
And I've got this question, you
know, or the comment every once

738
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:06,120
in a while and my answer is
always do you want 100 OK

739
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:11,560
friends or a couple really close
friends to me, like the answer

740
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,840
is obvious.
I would much rather have a small

741
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:20,440
number of really close friends
than a huge number of people

742
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,560
that I called my friends but
maybe aren't really exactly my

743
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,120
friends.
And I feel like kids place too

744
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:32,280
much importance on the number of
people that they know, almost

745
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,680
like the number of followers, I
guess on social media, right.

746
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,160
And I feel like they, I feel
like there needs to be more

747
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,640
importance like you had just
talked about placed on the

748
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:53,240
importance of a few really good
close personal friendships.

749
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,920
And I I don't think that's
happening enough today.

750
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,080
Absolutely.
And you know, I think what

751
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,560
you're saying that a lot of
people place this unrealistic

752
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,400
expectation on themselves that
they need to have a million

753
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,200
friends.
I think that is such a problem.

754
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:15,600
And The thing is, is that even a
recent study came out that 73%

755
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,960
of young adults feel really
alone and disconnected.

756
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,920
And another study found that
about half of Gen.

757
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,440
Z feels like they have no close
friends.

758
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,480
And so for someone to be mad
about the fact or, you know,

759
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,400
depressed about the fact that
they have no close friendships,

760
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,120
they're, they're not alone with
that.

761
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,920
I mean, it's a lot, a lot of
people who are feeling that way,

762
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,520
which breeds an opportunity for
young people to start building

763
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,040
meaningful connections because
they're all in the same boat.

764
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:49,840
They're all going through it
together.

765
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:54,920
So this is such a good time for
people to start saying, hey, I

766
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,800
need to go out there and I need
to start building my friendships

767
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,040
and connections and I need to
get my 40 hours in with these

768
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,600
people.
I like that it gives them a goal

769
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,280
40 hours.
That's an interesting statistic.

770
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:08,400
I never heard that before, but
that's.

771
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,880
Yeah, man, I should be really
good friends with my coworkers

772
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,880
then all.
Right.

773
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,840
Meaningful hours.
Meaningful hours.

774
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,960
You gotcha.
OK, good point.

775
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,880
But I mean, you think about it,
a lot of people who end up on

776
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,480
sports teams, they end up
becoming good friends and it's

777
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,520
because they they have those
hours.

778
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:30,760
It's.
Very true.

779
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,160
That is true, yeah.
You know, it's funny.

780
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,120
My my daughter is in karate and
she's there probably 5-6 nights

781
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:43,720
a week and some of her very best
friends are from karate and I I

782
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:46,600
guess I just thought about it,
it's because they they spend the

783
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,800
time together there and
apparently it must be quality

784
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,560
time so.
Yeah, that's that's wonderful.

785
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,520
Ali, I thank you, but I, I would
like to give you the opportunity

786
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:03,040
to, to tell us more about your
your book and where people could

787
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,800
find it.
Yeah, my book is called Out of

788
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:07,800
Focus.
Why Gen.

789
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,760
Z's mental health crisis is more
complex than you can think, Than

790
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,000
You think.
And you can find it on out of

791
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,680
focusbook.com.
And you can also find me on

792
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,760
social media at Ali Frydenberg,
which is so hard to spell, but

793
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,720
maybe you guys can drop, drop it
in your little links.

794
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:32,280
But yeah, I, I, my book is just
something that was honestly born

795
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,520
from grief.
I lost my best friend and it was

796
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,200
the hardest thing I've ever been
through.

797
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,120
I personally struggled most my
life with depression as well.

798
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:46,040
And it's something that I think
should be spoken from someone

799
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,960
who's actually experienced it.
And a lot of the people who are

800
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,080
talking about the subject are
older researchers like Jonathan

801
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,000
Height or Scott Galloway and,
and other people who have not

802
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,520
lived it.
And so for me, I'm one of the

803
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,680
few young people who's actually
put out a book about this

804
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,240
because I feel like now more
than ever, we need to do

805
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:13,000
something about this crisis.
I agree with you and it makes it

806
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,280
more relatable when you're of
that age that your audience of

807
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,920
the audience that the book is
meant for.

808
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,520
I'm sorry you had to go through
an awful time and all that

809
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,120
heartache, but something great
was born of it.

810
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,840
So kudos to you for that.
And we'll definitely put the

811
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:36,640
link everywhere on our website
and social media.

812
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:39,520
And it's meant a lot for us to
have you on here today.

813
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,640
I appreciate it so much and I
know the audience will as well.

814
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,400
I second that.
Thank you so much.

815
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,160
It's been wonderful chatting
with you well.

816
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:51,520
Thank you too, and I'm excited
to hear it come out and thank

817
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,400
you for the work that you do.
And I, I wanted to say to you

818
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,360
that you know, a lot of people
are scared to speak up on such

819
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,040
important topics.
And so I commend you both for

820
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,160
wanting to do that work and to
speak up because more of us

821
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,240
really need to.
Thank you.

822
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,600
Thank you so much.
Well, thank you guys.

823
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:11,600
Bye all.
Right.

824
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:12,400
Take care.
Thank you.

825
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:13,600
Bye.
Bye.

826
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:13,920
Bye.